Your Company Thinks It's Using AI. It Isn't. | John Munsell
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About this episode
Most companies think they've "adopted AI." They have a Copilot license, maybe a chatbot on the website. John Munsell calls that dipping your toe in the water. Real adoption looks completely different and the gap between where most companies are and where they need to be is costing them millions.
What you'll learn:
- Why "AI adoption" is being measured wrong and what the right metric actually is
- How John's 10 Levels of AI Mastery framework pinpoints exactly where your team is falling short
- Why 90%+ of employees at most companies are stuck at level two or below (and how to fix it fast)
- How proper training can compress 19-24 months of individual AI growth into 4-6 weeks
- Why governance and training are the two things companies leave for last and why that is the most expensive mistake they make
- How team makeup (the PAEI framework) determines whether your AI initiatives succeed or stall
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About John Munsell
John Munsell is the CEO of Bizzuka and the author of "InGrain AI." He sold his digital marketing agency client portfolio in 2022, right before ChatGPT went public, and spent the following years building a framework to help companies move from AI curiosity to full workforce transformation. His InGrain AI Certified Implementer Program is developing the next generation of Chief AI Officers.
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Key moments
- (06:54) The $19K website that became a $150K engagement.
- (13:33) Why "AI adoption" is a lie.
- (14:22) Introducing the 10 levels of AI mastery. John breaks down the framework his firm uses to assess real proficiency, not usage, across entire organizations.
- (21:03) The brick exercise. John splits 40 employees into groups and gives them five minutes to list as many uses for a brick as possible.
- (28:36) Shadow AI is already in your building.
- (33:57) The three-tier governance model.
- (44:40) What the 10 levels of AI adoption actually look like.
- (47:18) Training and governance are last on every company's list.
- (50:25) How to get a resistant workforce to actually adopt AI.
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Connect with John Munsell:
- Website: https://www.bizzuka.com
- Book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F2Z6H53T/
- New book waitlist: https://www.ingrain.ai/2026
- Free economic impact assessment (valued at $547, but free for my listeners! Use code SHMUEL for 100% off): https://www.bizzuka.com/impact
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About The Built To Scale Podcast:
Follow us on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/company/built-to-scale-agency/
For more information about Built To Scale visit: https://www.builttoscale.co/
If you have any questions, suggestions, or ideas for a future episode, please email [email protected].
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